Ep 15: EMDR, Ballet, and Rear Naked Choke-Holds with Lisa Smith

Timestamps:

1. Welcome to Episode Fifteen — 1000 Listens and Wendy's Out Sick — 0:00

2. Meet Valisara — Siren's Right Hand Steps Into the Chair — 0:51

3. Meet Lisa Smith — Eight Years a Therapist, EMDR Specialist — 2:48

4. What EMDR Actually Is — The Night Janitor Metaphor — 9:01

5. Val's Story — Molestation at Five and Barriers to Care — 14:41

6. Red Flags, Green Flags, and Vetting a Therapist — 26:24

7. The A Plus Story — 30:35

8. When the Therapist Persona Follows You Home — 31:25

9. Barriers for Queer Clients — Good Will Hunting Myths — 38:41

10. A Plus Therapy and Building a Group Practice — 50:36

11. Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, and the Rear Naked Choke — 52:15

12. Trauma, Triggers, and Therapist Self Care — 58:10

13. The Ballet Story — Poverty, Pointe, and Starting Over — 1:00:08

14. Leo Cusp and Late Bloomer Energy — 1:05:20

15. Martial Arts in the Bedroom — Switch Energy — 1:07:52

16. Advice to a Younger Self — Being Seen — 1:10:42

17. Tongue First — Ice Cream and the Last Question — 1:12:39

EMDR, Ballet, and Rear Naked Choke-Holds with Lisa Smith

Wendy's under the weather this week, so Siren welcomed two people into the room instead of one — Valisara, stepping out from behind the scenes and into the co-host chair for the first time, and Lisa Smith, a licensed therapist who specializes in EMDR and works closely with queer and neurodivergent clients.

This is one of the more educational episodes the show has produced, and one of the most personal.

Val's Story

Partway through the episode, Val shares something she's never talked about publicly before — being molested at age five by a neighbor, and the barriers she faced getting real support afterward as the child of two moms during the DOMA era, when insurance and access to care for queer families looked very different than it does now.

It's a hard section of the episode. It's also an important one, and Val tells it with a steadiness that speaks for itself.

What EMDR Actually Is

Lisa breaks down EMDR — Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing — starting with its almost accidental discovery by psychologist Francine Shapiro. She explains bilateral stimulation in plain language, using a metaphor about a night janitor quietly cleaning up files while you sleep. It's one of the clearest explanations of trauma therapy the show has featured.

Vetting a Therapist

The conversation moves into something genuinely useful: how to actually find a therapist who's safe, especially as a queer or neurodivergent person. Lisa talks through real red and green flags, why she pays close attention to what a client doesn't say, and the very specific kind of failure that happens when a therapist assumes every queer client's problems are about being queer.

She also opens up about what it's like when the therapist persona doesn't fully turn off — how eight years of holding space for other people follows you home in ways clients rarely think about.

The Ballet Story

Later in the episode, Lisa tells a story that has nothing to do with therapy at all. Growing up without much money, she wasn't allowed to do taekwondo as a kid because her family couldn't afford the uniform. Years later, after an adult knee injury, she found her way into ballet — and this year, she went on pointe for the first time. An adult beginner, doing something most people assume isn't accessible to someone starting from scratch.

Before ballet, there was jiu jitsu and Muay Thai, including a ruptured eardrum, a live rear naked choke demonstration in studio, and a story involving an Apple Watch accidentally calling 911.

The Rest of It

Because it's still Tongue First: Leo cusp discourse, martial arts technique making an unexpected appearance in the bedroom conversation, advice to a younger self about being seen for more than just being unique, and a closing tongue-first question that somehow lands on a lemon drop ice cup.

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Tongue First is a sapphic and queer podcast hosted by Aubrey "Siren" Jones and Wendy Reeves. New episodes every Monday. Find us at tonguefirstpodcast.com and support the show on Patreon at Tongue First: After Hours.

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Until next time — stay curious, stay queer, and don't forget to lick responsibly.

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